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Buyer used wrong shipping address
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cosmicray



Posts: 7015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Buyer used wrong shipping address Reply with quote

SheilaDeesPostcards wrote:
First, the only place you tell your customer that you will only ship to the address provided by the payment company is way down on the terms page. There is nothing to make that information stand out to the customer. Most customers don't read the terms pages or if they look at them I doubt they would stay with you long enough to get down far enough for that information. Important info like that should be much earlier in your terms AND listed on your FAQ page. A lot of people do not realize the importance of having their shipping address match the address on their credit card billing. When a customer moves, it's easy to overlook changing an address.

Second, you are sent a notice from eCrater that has the address they listed when they completed the eCrater checkout if they pay by PayPal. If that address is different from the PayPal confirmed address, that should have been a red flag of a possible problem. I would have contacted the customer regarding the conflict in addresses before I shipped. How you handled the info you received back from the customer would be up to you, but at least you and the buyer would be aware of difference prior to shipping. Some sellers here will cancel the order and hold the item until the customer can get their address changed on PayPal. Once the address has been changed and the customer has emails back, an invoice can be sent for the item. This isn't a problem with Google because we only see the address provided by Google and the customer can enter a different shipping address on Google.


All of this leads to one question that has been bugging me for quite a while ...

Why does eCRATER even allow the customer to enter an address (for PayPal paid orders) when PayPal is going to hand the seller an address anyway ?

If eCRATER did not give the customer the option to enter a different address (leading to a conflict problem) would not that signal to the customer they need to stop and correct the PayPal supplied address ?
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SheilaDeesPostcards



Posts: 4121

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ thecheapskirt ... You missed the point I was making. In the example you gave I would agree with you, but in the example the OP gave the customer put the address they wanted in the eCrater checkout system and the seller didn't use that address. The seller shipped to the address given in PayPal rather than the shipping address given by the customer on eCrater. The seller tells the customer to read the terms in the item descriptions and their terms say they ship to the address given by PayPal. The problem arose when the customer moved without changing the address at PayPal and, IMO, the problem was compounded when the seller didn't notice the different addresses.

@ cosmicray ... I have wondered exactly the same thing. I think it probably has to do with the fact that the checkout system was created without USPS calculated shipping and Google Checkout, plus I've assumed PayPal has made some changes. At one time, it was no big deal to ship an order to an unconfirmed PayPal address. The customer probably has to put at least the city, state and zipcode to see the shipping cost for USPS calculated shipping. The checkout system doesn't know the method of payment until after the customer's shipping info has been requested. I would like to see the checkout system revamped. The customer needs to be able to input their zip code to see the cost of shipping for multiple items before they add all their personal information. If the customer doesn't put in all the information on eCrater, we would never know the customer is having a problem with PayPal and we would be in the dark just as we are with Google. I would hate to loss the ability to know when a customer has a problem with the system.

All of this to say, we have to be careful what we ask for when we ask for changes. Laughing
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cosmicray



Posts: 7015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SheilaDeesPostcards wrote:
If the customer doesn't put in all the information on eCrater, we would never know the customer is having a problem with PayPal and we would be in the dark just as we are with Google. I would hate to loss the ability to know when a customer has a problem with the system.


I guess there are two viewpoints here ....

One is where the customer doesn't realize that the addresses don't match. Where the customer assumes they do, and is just putting into eCRATER what they think is already in PayPal.

The other is where the customer knows they're putting in a different address, and possibly for a gift shipment.

In the first case, not allowing them to enter an address at eCRATER would force them to think about (and look at) what address PP is sending (one would hope). In the second case, PP already has a procedure to cover that (the Alternate Address Confirmation procedure) but it is fraught with issues, and doesn't always succeed. The customer would think they can short circuit via eCRATER and get the desired result, possibly without realizing that doing so leaves the seller between a rock and a hard place. I can't tell you how many times I have run into this, and when I communicate with the customer, they tell me to send it to the eCRATER address and ignore the PP address (which is of course a no-no).

So I'm left with flat refunding the payment (with no room for the customer to argue) or sending it to the PP address (also potentially irritating the customer). Somedays you just can't win.

All of the above is why I finally disabled PP on my 2nd store. I was getting too many of these situations, for an order that totaled less than $4, and for which I had to refund and eat the 30-cent fee.
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thecheapskirt



Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is most surprising to me is that PayPal is writing to sellers telling them to refund or "send another" (sorry, but I sell unique things and rarely do I have "another" to send) in cases where they would be covered by the Seller Protection Policy.

This leads me to believe that PayPal does not want to be on the hook for refunding the buyer and is trying to pass that off to the seller on a voluntary basis. How many sellers are not aware of the policy and would think "oh, well PayPal told me to do it, so I guess I have to"?

Seems like a slimy business practice to me.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecheapskirt wrote:
This leads me to believe that PayPal does not want to be on the hook for refunding the buyer and is trying to pass that off to the seller on a voluntary basis.

I agree. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall something about the basic 2.9% rate being variable (and not variable down because you have huge sale volume). What I remember is something about the rate could be higher if you have an unusual number of claims filed against you. I guess the question goes to this "is the seller using best practices when addressing and shipping packages ?"

If not, then perhaps PP can goose them a bit to tell them to clean up their act. The SPP is there because to not give the seller any protection would scare off lots of sellers (which PP does not want to do). If you can prove that you did everything right, PP will cover the transaction. If too many transactions go wrong, then PP may have a form of recourse.
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 16544

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When purchasing something on line, have you ever not had a chance to confirm that you address is correct?
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cosmicray



Posts: 7015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoonwishesStore wrote:
When purchasing something on line, have you ever not had a chance to confirm that you address is correct?

In the second case I referred to, that doesn't help. The customer knows full well that the PP address is correct. They just want it shipped somewhere else, and don't care what PP has. The customer isn't bound to (follow the rules of) the SPP, the seller is. If the customer is honest, and everything goes well, then no harm done. But the seller has no way to accurately predict how it will turn out.
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RetrocadeGames



Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SheilaDeesPostcards wrote:
The problem arose when the customer moved without changing the address at PayPal and, IMO, the problem was compounded when the seller didn't notice the different addresses.


Honestly after 400 sales. This is something I've noticed but ignored. Tend to think that the info they have with their payment is the correct one. Most cases it is. I haven't had any problems like this till now, though I know that's no excuse. This is just the way I've been doing orders. Plus I don't want to cross PayPal and their rules. I do encourage my customers to read my terms, which noticeably they do not.

After any issues I have like this one I tend to do some adjustments to my layout. I admit I do make some mistakes as a seller. But its also the buyers responsibility that all their online information is correct before purchases.
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thelivesandlovesofmaggiethecat



Posts: 9886

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ordered something a while back off Groupon. It hadn't shown up and I was about to file a complaint. It came to day. I had forgotten to change my address with Groupon and it went to my old address. That is across the sidewalk and the woman has my phone number. She could have called me and I'd have gone over to get it. Heck she could have tossed it out the back door and yelled Catch.

We consumers have our addresses with so many companies and organizations that unless we have a paid service that makes all changes for us, we are going to forget those less used or important businesses.
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