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SammysSupplies



Posts: 1631

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleButterflyJewlery wrote:
If they do sue Google, won't they need that income from the paid placement? I guess I don't see where it will affect it at all.


Sorry, it seems I have hit the wrong button.
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MoonwishesStore
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Posts: 17045

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just think they should be up front and transparent and tell us how much we will be charged--I don't want to wake up to a $100 bill in my credit card for something as lame as Google Shopping exposure for a week.


Do you mean Google should tell you upfront how much they will charge? If you have an Adwords account, you tell THEM how much you will pay per search term, or day, etc. You set a budget and Google won't go over it.
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thecheapskirt



Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoonwishesStore wrote:
Quote:
I just think they should be up front and transparent and tell us how much we will be charged--I don't want to wake up to a $100 bill in my credit card for something as lame as Google Shopping exposure for a week.


Do you mean Google should tell you upfront how much they will charge? If you have an Adwords account, you tell THEM how much you will pay per search term, or day, etc. You set a budget and Google won't go over it.


No. I meant that ecrater rolled this out without a single explanation.

Since I wrote that, they have come to one thread to "explain" it. But there is no help text, etc where they are directing you to do it, and the way it is worded implied that if you do not hook up your account, you will not be in Google Shopping.

The majority of users do not come here searching for info. It isn't even listed in the "News" section if they did.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7154

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecheapskirt wrote:
Since I wrote that, they have come to one thread to "explain" it. But there is no help text, etc where they are directing you to do it, and the way it is worded implied that if you do not hook up your account, you will not be in Google Shopping.

The way this has been explained is that you only get exposure if you are paying for it. My take is, this has been one way of trying to stomp on the ever-expanding population of drop shippers (who really do not hold inventory, and who will try to sell on as many venues as possible). Having to pay (for ranking) at each and every venue could very well have a damping effect on the drop shippers.

For those of us who hold inventory, the situation is different. We would like ranking. Some of us sell on multiple venues (I do, but only one that exports to GPS).

One question I asked way back when this first was announced was about what happens when you are not paying fees, and you are the only seller (or one of a very small number) who satisfies the search query. I never got an absolute and acceptable answer to that. My impression is that the GPS 'pay for play' fee system is most applicable when there are a large number of hits to a search query, and the various sellers are jostling for ranking. IOW, 'pay for play' is a one way to squelch the constant bickering about 'why didn't I get page 1 visibility'. In the new way of doing things, the answer is 'you got outbid'.

My hunch remains that if you are the only applicable search result (or one of a very small number), you will still get shown. I can't prove this, just an educated guess.
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aspencounty



Posts: 815

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicray wrote:
My take is, this has been one way of trying to stomp on the ever-expanding population of drop shippers (who really do not hold inventory, and who will try to sell on as many venues as possible). Having to pay (for ranking) at each and every venue could very well have a damping effect on the drop shippers.



That is the most absurd comment I have ever seen posted by anyone, anywhere! I am a drop shipper and I take issue with your notion that this is "One Way Of Trying To Stomp On The Ever Expanding Population OF Drop Shippers" I don't much care for your hateful attitude.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7154

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aspencounty wrote:
cosmicray wrote:
My take is, this has been one way of trying to stomp on the ever-expanding population of drop shippers (who really do not hold inventory, and who will try to sell on as many venues as possible). Having to pay (for ranking) at each and every venue could very well have a damping effect on the drop shippers.



That is the most absurd comment I have ever seen posted by anyone, anywhere! I am a drop shipper and I take issue with your notion that this is "One Way Of Trying To Stomp On The Ever Expanding Population OF Drop Shippers" I don't much care for your hateful attitude.

1. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
2. Drop shippers have less of an investment in inventory than people who hold inventory (as I do). They may have an investment in other ways, but they are not holding physical inventory.
3. I have had several instances (described elsewhere) where a few sellers have tried to flip the products I'm selling as a part of the transaction, and get me to do the drop shipping for them. IOW, they were advertising product they did not physically hold, nor had the legal right to attempt to sell.
4. My comment was not meant to be hateful, nor do I think it was. It was my opinion of one of the reasons I believe that GPS is going to the 'pay for play' policy.
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MoonwishesStore
moderator


Posts: 17045

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is the most absurd comment I have ever seen posted by anyone, anywhere! I am a drop shipper and I take issue with your notion that this is "One Way Of Trying To Stomp On The Ever Expanding Population OF Drop Shippers" I don't much care for your hateful attitude.


I think in some minds there are different types of drop shippers. Those that are truly in business and those (we see them here frequently) that list their 'products' anywhere they can, they don't take time to figure out each sites listing policies or how a site works, they don't even know how the drop shipping works--the biggest example is when one of them actually sells something and comes on the forum to find out what they are now supposed to do. Including one a long time ago that was wondering if ecrater ships their products when they sell! Those kind of 'sellers' ARE a huge drain on the resources of search engines and any selling venue. Somehow they were told, list it and they will come. So they list with minimal effort. They think selling, because they have been told this, on line is 'easy' money when we all know it takes a lot of work.

Those that truly run a business like Aspen are in a totally different ballpark. I think there is nothing wrong with multi-channel listing as long as you can keep up with it--Just trying to sell on two venues is enough to give me the fidgets, but as a drop shipper, you would hae better access to more goods so when you get a sale it doesn't mean having to delete it at all your sites.

Those of us that carry inventory have to be careful not to double sell, especially our one of a kind, rare items. Carrying inventory is expensive as not only does it need paid for, but we are taxed each year on what we have in inventory! If our stuff moves slow, that is year after year of being taxed on the same stuff (if I'm wrong about that, please someone tell me!!!)

I don't really think Cosmic was trying to be mean or absurd, but most likely was thinking of a whole different kind of seller. Even those of us with inventory have to be careful when we are going head to head with someone that is trying to make a fast buck. I went to list a pattern yesterday and found that this person had listed one saying it contained both pants and tops, which meant I had to list mine and state clearly that NO tops were in the pattern which almost looks like mine are missing, but I wanted any buyer who is searching to realize that I KNOW my inventory!

But to get back to the topic at hand. After reading ecrater-moons post about the Adwords I decided to give it a try--one more time and am promoting only a small selection of my invenotry so I can better gauge any possible results. Does anyone remember what is the actual date these GS changes take place?
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viewfinders



Posts: 1555

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see how this would help me. Most of my items have no brand name, no msps or even isbns. To bid on souvenir scarf, vintage tablecloth, etc would have me so far behind the high bids by eBay and paying sites with large ad budgets to make my low bids useless.

If I got more specific in my bid words, such as vintage Rome souvenir scarf I would be investing an ad budget for one not very expensive item.

If I am wrong on how this would work, I would appreciate your enlightenment.
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SammysSupplies



Posts: 1631

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been wondering about that as well. I have no brand names, and for now, I still come up near the top with generic terms, like if I look for silver and purple earrings. That be how I would search I wanted something specific to go with an outfit.
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MoonwishesStore
moderator


Posts: 17045

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adwords does help with suggesring keywords to use for your ads. Most of them (at least for me) don't have any brand names.

What I did was take one of my smaller categories, and promoted what was in it with words that I think people might use if they are looking for that particular type pattern.

For someone selling say depression glass - you don't advertise just one listing here, I'm assuming you have an entire category with 20-100 pieces. You could use for adwords, depression glass, pink drepression glass, blue depression glass, green depression glass, depression glass plate, tea cup, serving dish, etc. Which is how I would think someone would look and if you know the name of the pattern and if you have several pieces of that set, then you can do something like sunflower depression plate. Granted these are ideas, but adwords will give you even more that you could pick and choose to use depending on your type of inventory. You would insert the url for that particular category, so anyone clicking on it will end in your store in the depression glass, but might get inspired to look around further in your store (and they would be coming in with your url so they couldn't wander around the rest of ecrater looking at all the depression glass.

Hope this helps and if I'm completely off my rocker, someone will be sure to tell me, but that is how I set mine up yesterday.
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thecheapskirt



Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a buyer, searching Google Shopping lately has been a disaster. I wouldn't use it as a buyer.
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oakteakstore



Posts: 1050

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Moonwishes said, they help with keywords suggestions. They also say in their help sections to not get too specific with descriptions, not too general either. I think they are saying that you don't need brand names in order to get good search results.

There is some good help available there. However, it is like digging for gold to try to get specific answers for every question.

There is a lot of reading to do.

I set mine up a little while ago. We'll see if it makes any difference.
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maggiethehousecat



Posts: 2401

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Moonwishes. I tend to agree with Cheap Skirt however that Google Shopping has become a waste of time when in a buying mood. Sometimes the results are totally unrelated to my search terms when I know good well that the items I'm looking for are available online.

I know my items have been fed to Google but they have not shown more than a half dozen old listings for years. Nothing else seems to get included into a search.
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elpereles



Posts: 3405

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maggiethehousecat, agree with you. It is difficult to spend some money in Froogle.

Even before Google decide to move "to pay to show" the searches in Froogle becomes really bad. In special populated sometimes with non-related items from eBay or Amazon.

eCrater if you are paying for my items. I prefer that you take my items out from submission product list to Froogle.
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