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elpereles



Posts: 3253

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
IMO, adding postage to the price when offering free shipping is dishonest and fraudulent. It certainly is not "free" shipping. Don't assume that everyone includes shipping costs in the price when offering free shipping because I don't. The prices of my items are for the item only. I pay all shipping costs out of my pocket so all shipping costs are deductible business expenses.


As far I understand. It isn't a dishonest and fraudulent issue. All the stuff buy in retail stores already have all the expenses included in the item price. If your business allow you have free S&H. Congratulations! It is fantastic, but not all business work the same way.

Now I don't understand how somebody said that wanted to refund S&H for free S&H stuff. Wink
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cosmicray



Posts: 6584

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NirvanaCreations wrote:
I pay all shipping costs out of my pocket so all shipping costs are deductible business expenses.

The cost of shipping items sold is always a deductible business expenses (unless you are not reporting full gross receipts perhaps).
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15197

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Don't assume that everyone includes shipping costs in the price when offering free shipping because I don't. The prices of my items are for the item only. I pay all shipping costs out of my pocket so all shipping costs are deductible business expenses.


Whether the customer gives you the money for the shipping or you take it out of your pocket, all shipping costs are tax deductible. So if this is why you do this instead of generosity on your part, there is no need of it. For you to be taking all postage costs out of your own pocket is generosity to the extreme with no call for it, especially as I assume that you don't know your buyers and have no need to give them 'gifts'.

I have no clue how you can run a business with giving all buyers totally free shipping with you taking the cost out of your pocket, separate from the business which is what you imply you are doing. This also has nothing to do with honesty but how a well run business runs.

No CEO of any company can afford to take justified expenses out of their pocket everyday. Can you imagine that for each 'free shipping' item that Amazon sends out, Jeff Bezos is taking the shipping cost out of his pocket? I can see his secretary coming up to him at the end of each day telling him how much he owes, then he sits down and writes a check out of his personal checking account (and hoping it doesn't bounce because his wife was going shopping that day). No way! The 'free' shipping Amazon gives is already worked into the cost of goods sold.
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thecheapskirt



Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NirvanaCreations wrote:

IMO, adding postage to the price when offering free shipping is dishonest and fraudulent. It certainly is not "free" shipping. Don't assume that everyone includes shipping costs in the price when offering free shipping because I don't. The prices of my items are for the item only. I pay all shipping costs out of my pocket so all shipping costs are deductible business expenses.


I would be very careful using the word "fraud" when referring to other seller's business practices here unless you have proof. And if you do, you should take that directly to ecrater. Otherwise you may find yourself in some legal hot water. What you write online is admissible in court.
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NirvanaCreations



Posts: 81

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I'm not being generous and it's not a gift. Part of running a business is putting some profits back into the business. For this business, part of my profits goes into paying the shipping costs.

In the US, you can deduct actual shipping costs, but what you charged your buyer for shipping is considered part of gross sales. In my business, paying for shipping works out to be more profitable for me. If the math works out for you charging shipping, then that's how you should do it. I'm not going to get into a discussion of business accounting and tax laws. Everyone should consult a tax professional to see what works best for their situation.

My comment had to do with those offering "free shipping" but including the shipping costs in the price of the item and the generality that everyone does that. Free shipping to me means "no cost to the customer for shipping". If Amazon or anyone else offers free shipping and the customer is paying it anyway then, to me, that's not free. Last time I checked, saying something that isn't true is dishonest (synonym: fraudulent - my apologies for being redundant). That's their choice to do it that way but I'd rather not be lumped in with them, especially on a public forum.

I've run a consulting firm for years and I also sell some things online. I've never had delusions of being another Microsoft or Google or Amazon. I just wanted to be successful and I have been. In all my years in business, honesty is one of the things that keeps my customers coming back and bringing me more customers through word of mouth. Old fashioned? Perhaps. But it's always worked for me.
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A-Better-Way



Posts: 3109

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the free shipping and adding it to the ONE price.
Less complicated for the buyer and the price IS "the price"


I think saying " $4.99" then the ACTUAL cost is "$7.99" is more trickery and being dishonest to rake in a customer under the pretense the price is only $4.99 I hate fine print and so do almost most people.

Like a rebate to buy a car, or a lease, it's better to know the exact amount going in without subtracting, adding, reading, deceiving.

Regardless if the shipping is added to the price and called free shipping, for all practical purposes it IS free as far as the customer is concerned and is free according to their wallets. Unlike having to recalculate for a HIGHER new price.
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cosmicray



Posts: 6584

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NirvanaCreations wrote:
My comment had to do with those offering "free shipping" but including the shipping costs in the price of the item and the generality that everyone does that. Free shipping to me means "no cost to the customer for shipping". If Amazon or anyone else offers free shipping and the customer is paying it anyway then, to me, that's not free. Last time I checked, saying something that isn't true is dishonest (synonym: fraudulent - my apologies for being redundant). That's their choice to do it that way but I'd rather not be lumped in with them, especially on a public forum.


As a seller, I look at this issue from several perspectives. One of them is that I get this little pot of money everytime a customer places an order. That pot of money has to be enough to cover my expenses, cover the packaging and shipping, and to allow me to turn a profit (sometimes small, sometimes better) on the sale. Now, how you divide up the pot between item cost and shipping really has to do with customer perception, and how you handle the customer wanting to buy one of something or several of something.

In my LEGO parts store, the parts are relatively low priced. There is no way on earth you can bury the shipping cost in the part price, and still entice the customer to buy more than 1 or 2 items. It just doesn't work. You have to break the shipping out, and do in such a way that it actually (or approximately) tracks the weight of the package going out the door.

For larger priced items, it may be quite possible to bury the price (or at least subsidize it) within the item cost. If you are competing with a seller on Amazon, where they are having to pay 10-14% in fees, you may be able to leverage your fee advantage here to bury the shipping cost, still sell at a better price, and offer free shipping. It all depends on the exact item, and how much you need to entice/bribe the customer to click the 'Buy' button.
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15197

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Free shipping to me means "no cost to the customer for shipping". If Amazon or anyone else offers free shipping and the customer is paying it anyway then, to me, that's not free. Last time I checked, saying something that isn't true is dishonest (synonym: fraudulent - my apologies for being redundant). That's their choice to do it that way but I'd rather not be lumped in with them, especially on a public forum.


I think this is a case of semantics. You say you pay for shipping out of profits but frown on those that give free shipping where they say the shipping cost is included in the price of the item. In both cases you are saying the same thing. For you, the shipping is coming out of the profits for the sale and in that way the buyer IS paying for the shipping. You may think in your head that you aren't charging your customer for their shipping, but without them actually buying something so that you make a profit, you wouldn't have any money for the shipping. It is all a word game.

I'm just glad that except for one or two extremely lightweight items, I charge shipping on all my items so that it is all aboveboard. The customer knows what the item costs and they know what the shipping will be and I have my matrix set up that for combined shipping, the shipping works out correctly with no need to 'refund' the buyer. I too, believe in honesty in selling and I suspect that most people that sell on line are. To be claiming that those that don't do the mental gymnastics you do to prove where their shipping is coming from when giving 'free' shipping are dishonest, is just not right.
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elpereles



Posts: 3253

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My comment had to do with those offering "free shipping" but including the shipping costs in the price of the item and the generality that everyone does that.


I understood the comment was to the the sellers offering "free" S&H. But it wasn't a fair comment as seller to attack other sellers. Now if you are complaining about your experience as buyer. It is other story. Wink

One more time. Congratulations to anyone offering "free" shipping and can eat all S&H expensive. Let be clear not all the "business" can run the same way. In special when everybody is selling different stuff and everything can't be ship in PWE with 1 stamp.

Back to the topic. Why somebody said that wanted to refund S&H for free S&H stuff? It isn't logic.

Now I believe and suggest to the OP contact eCrater because maybe in the marketplace is time to add the option to have editable invoice orders and not direct sales.
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Itsmygaragesales



Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I was starting to feel like a criminal. Could not help myself, had to weigh in on this! Good thing I don,t say tax free in my state.
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15197

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was starting to feel like a criminal.


Whether you do 'free' shipping or not, there is nothing inherently dishonest (or criminal Wink ) about the practice. It is our business to run how it best serves us. My complaint is a seller implying that other sellers are being dishonest if they are taking the price of shipping out of the cost of the item instead of the profit from selling the item which to me are one and the same thing!
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