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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:22 pm    Post subject: Negative Feedback Reply with quote

Greetings.
A buyer from the UK bought a $5.00 item from me here in the US.
My shop is set up w/ calculated shipping.
The buyer paid w/ PayPal.
Due to time differences, she sent 3 nasty eMails.
They demanded I immediately refund her money.
She said my shop was deceitful & misleading.
Apparently, she expected a $5.00 - 8 ounce item was 'free' shipping.
The postage cost for first class Int'l was $10.00 - out of my control.
I attached a copy of her PayPal payment showing the shipping clearly.
I apologized that her iPhone may not have had a clear enough view.
I immediately hit refund on PayPal.
PayPal charged me an add'l $1.22 to refund her money.
( Exchange rate ? ).
Because it was before July 4th, although PayPal took the $ from me,
they would not credit her back until July 5th.
I then got 3 more nasty eMails from this buyer demanding her money.
I explained that I did refund, I sent her that confirm.
I also showed her PayPal's note for delivery by July 5th.
She tried to guilt me, that, because of the delay...
she couldn't buy her baby diapers...
Her messages said: "sent from my iPhone"...
( Which, obviously, she COULD afford)...
She NEVER thanked me for my prompt attention.
So, eCrater marked the order w/ an R (for refund).
I thought the buyer could not leave Feedback when they cancel.
WRONG.
I woke up to an ugly negative Feedback.
I do not know how people think we can ship stuff overseas for free.
Us US sellers are not China, we don't get cheap ePacket.
I also don't know why a non buyer could be so vindictive.
This woman ruined my rating.
It cost me money because of HER mistake.
I wrote to eCrater to review it.
But, having to work so hard, for so little...
and getting abused like this, just seems wrong.
I just increased my postage on Int'l to Priority Mail.
Hopefully, this will deter all Int'l sales..
until I can figure out if I still want to sell Int'l on eCrater...
Thank you for listening.
Five-And-Dime

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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15876

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe you aren't looking for advice, just wanting to blow off steam??

Be sure to send all the info including copies of all the email, yours and hers, to the ecrater team and they may be able to get rid of the negative.

Out of curiosity I checked what would be the cost to ship the two matchbook school buses internationally. I got a $48+ price! I checked and you can ship those via first class mail up to 4 pounds for lots less than that. Most likely they would fall into the 8-12 ounce for actual shipping rate of around $13-20. Putting an unrealistic postage price on your goods is sort of silly as it certainly will discourage customers. Not all international buyers are nuts any more than all US buyers are nuts. The customer should have seen what the shipping should have been long before she hit the payment key. You mention that she bought whatever using her phone. Did she tell you this or is this your assumption? Not all of us in the world have cell phones. The not being able to buy diapers is ludicrous. If she is that tight with her money she shouldn't have been buying stuff on line unless you sell some product that is absolutely necessary to the health and well being of her and her child.

I know when you get a lulu customer it is very stressful. I had one once in the UK that gave me her wrong address for patterns that she had planned to use for a new business she was starting. Boy was she ticked that it took 6 months for them to get there. Everything that could go wrong did with that order as it was like a domino effect.

At this point she should have her refund and you can breath again, but I wouldn't let this affect your selling to other international customers. None of us like the high rates, but we don't make Chinese sellers part of the explanation. She doesn't care and isn't interested.
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SheilaDeesPostcards



Posts: 3980

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One negative I have with the eCRATER checkout system is the fact that the customer isn't shown the shipping until after they are returned to eCRATER from PayPal. I understand why the system works this way; eCRATER doesn't know the customer's address until after that info is received from PayPal. However, unless the customer clicked on the shipping link on the item page, they have no idea of the shipping cost until they "think" they approved the amount on PayPal. Actually, they are only confirming the payment method on PayPal. When they are returned to eCRATER, they are shown the Total cost which includes shipping. They must click Submit for the order to be complete and their account charged.

I can understand why a customer may feel this is dishonest. They are shown the cost of the item in their Paypal account which they probably think is the total amount. If they don't look real good after being returned to eCRATER, they may just hit submit without checking the order. Then later, they see the shipping on the order email and may think the "shop was deceitful & misleading". This is not unique to international orders but happens with all PayPal Express orders when the seller uses USPS Calculated.

I wish eCRATER would add a note on the checkout page for every seller that uses USPS calculated shipping that shipping will be added after they have entered their address. This would also be a great place to put a link to the estimated shipping also.

This does not happen with Stripe, only PayPal. With Stripe, the customer enters their address then on the next screen they see the shipping before they enter their credit card info.
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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoonwishesStore wrote:
I believe you aren't looking for advice, just wanting to blow off steam??

Be sure to send all the info including copies of all the email, yours and hers, to the ecrater team and they may be able to get rid of the negative.

Out of curiosity I checked what would be the cost to ship the two matchbook school buses internationally. I got a $48+ price! I checked and you can ship those via first class mail up to 4 pounds for lots less than that. Most likely they would fall into the 8-12 ounce for actual shipping rate of around $13-20. Putting an unrealistic postage price on your goods is sort of silly as it certainly will discourage customers. Not all international buyers are nuts any more than all US buyers are nuts. The customer should have seen what the shipping should have been long before she hit the payment key. You mention that she bought whatever using her phone. Did she tell you this or is this your assumption? Not all of us in the world have cell phones. The not being able to buy diapers is ludicrous. If she is that tight with her money she shouldn't have been buying stuff on line unless you sell some product that is absolutely necessary to the health and well being of her and her child.

I know when you get a lulu customer it is very stressful. I had one once in the UK that gave me her wrong address for patterns that she had planned to use for a new business she was starting. Boy was she ticked that it took 6 months for them to get there. Everything that could go wrong did with that order as it was like a domino effect.

At this point she should have her refund and you can breath again, but I wouldn't let this affect your selling to other international customers. None of us like the high rates, but we don't make Chinese sellers part of the explanation. She doesn't care and isn't interested.


Hi, Moon...
You missed the part where I said I just removed First Class International (which is what my neg leaver got), from all my Int'l listings, and replaced it w/ Priority only... I am rethinking shipping Internationally, going forward... too many cheap buyers, and, a lost/stolen pkg thru Germany I had to refund even tho the German post admits they HAD it... I can't be subject to aggravation & loss because these Int'l buyers want free stuff...
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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SheilaDeesPostcards wrote:
One negative I have with the eCRATER checkout system is the fact that the customer isn't shown the shipping until after they are returned to eCRATER from PayPal. I understand why the system works this way; eCRATER doesn't know the customer's address until after that info is received from PayPal. However, unless the customer clicked on the shipping link on the item page, they have no idea of the shipping cost until they "think" they approved the amount on PayPal. Actually, they are only confirming the payment method on PayPal. When they are returned to eCRATER, they are shown the Total cost which includes shipping. They must click Submit for the order to be complete and their account charged.

I can understand why a customer may feel this is dishonest. They are shown the cost of the item in their Paypal account which they probably think is the total amount. If they don't look real good after being returned to eCRATER, they may just hit submit without checking the order. Then later, they see the shipping on the order email and may think the "shop was deceitful & misleading". This is not unique to international orders but happens with all PayPal Express orders when the seller uses USPS Calculated.

I wish eCRATER would add a note on the checkout page for every seller that uses USPS calculated shipping that shipping will be added after they have entered their address. This would also be a great place to put a link to the estimated shipping also.

This does not happen with Stripe, only PayPal. With Stripe, the customer enters their address then on the next screen they see the shipping before they enter their credit card info.


Hi... Sheila D...
THANKS for your post...
THIS explains a lot... NOT being shown shipping UPfront...
I'm just going to remove Int'' shipping from eCrater...
No need to be aggravated, have to refund for changed mind, lost/stolen...
AND get a negative...
Not enough profit anymore to put up w/ all that.
F&D
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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Moon & Sheila... I feel better...
F&D
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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just removed all Int'l shipping...
If a non US Buyer wants an item...
they can eMail me...
I will decide on a case by case basis...
I'm going to change all my listings to "free" US shipping later this week...
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15876

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't miss the part where you said that you were changing to Priority from what I assume was first class. I was commenting on the price that you had decided the Priority would be. $48 for shipping internationally for two matchbox school busses! Can't even imagine what it would have been for some of your higher weight items.

You have decided to forego international sales completely now which is your perogative of course. Your business, your rules. As I use the matrix, I didn't realize that this was a problem with calculated postage to adding in the postage, but it would seem to be a problem for your US customers as well, not knowing the postage ahead of time.

Before Google starting throwing wrenches into the works 20% of my sales were international. Currently for this year it is 15% which is still a respectable part of my sales considering how far they have dropped thanks to Google and I would hate losing them. I don't know what per centage of sales you got internationally, but just wondering if you might want to rethink it once you gotten your stress level a bit lower. It just sounds like you are perhaps throwing the baby out with the bath water. There should be other solutions that other sellers use.
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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Moon...
I probably chose the Global Priority Express...
Just to discourage Int'l till I figure it all out...
I want to revamp & do "free" US shipping...
If eCrater doesn't show the shipping until they pay...
I don't need any more upset neg leavers...
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maggiethehousecat



Posts: 2401

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More and more sellers on various sites are discontinuing international shipping. The prices for all but the smallest, lightest packages have sky-rocketed and without DC except for priority, I guess the risk is too high. All my sales at eCRATER have stopped for a few months now so it doesn't really effect me at the moment. But even on Etsy where I have no restrictions on where I ship, international has almost ceased.
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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@maggiethehousecat

I ALWAYS sold to Int'l buyers on MANY sites. Just like you.
But, the COST of POSTAGE went up, yet, buyers are unaware of it.
This is because China Sellers can ship for pennies on the dollar.
They think we ALL get those rates.
-
So, now, if a dishonest Customs or a horrid Postal system,
LOSES my package, w/ tracking stopping mid country...
it is -I- (or you), who must lose:
1. The item
2. The postage paid
WE lose all...
The ONLY way to PROTECT oneself ?
Global Priority w/ Tracking & Insurance
or eBay's GSP.
-
And, oh, the buyers object.
I do not blame them.
But, as a small Seller, I cannot afford such loses.
-
And, NEVER have so many people 'not rec'd' their pkgs.
ONLY since the 'buyer protection' has this risen.
Why ?
Well... a saavy 'buyer' just waits for someone to NOT scan.
Viola !
Free stuff.
-
I'm sorry, but we Sellers are people, struggling, too.
We can't foot the bill so YOU get stuff cheap.
-
This 'buyer' who left me a neg expected to get a $5.00 item
USA to UK... with NO shipping.
She EXPECTED it.
So, when eCrater doesn't SHOW the postage until they log in to PayPal.
When the iPhone user doesn't DOUBLE CHECK... just hits pay...
the SELLER, again, takes the punishment.
Always the seller.

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SheilaDeesPostcards



Posts: 3980

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking into adding International shipping. For the benefit of those reading this forum I'd like to add that Delivery Confirmation is available for International First-Class Package Service to 24 different countries including Canada, Great Britain, and Australia. This package service is available for items weighing between 3.5 ozs to 4 lbs. Here's a link for more information. http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/immc2_022.htm?q=international+delivery+confirmation&t=H&s=R&p=1&c=IMM There are a few rules, like you have to purchase online, but it's nice to know that it is available.

You can also add insurance to help with a lost package. With Endicia, the price of insurance is very reaonable. I think most international customers know the cost of international shipping is expensive.

@Moonwishes, you said,
Quote:
As I use the matrix, I didn't realize that this was a problem with calculated postage to adding in the postage, but it would seem to be a problem for your US customers as well, not knowing the postage ahead of time.
This got me to wondering so I checked out your store. The same thing happens with the matrix. I put 2 patterns in my cart and was shown the total cost of the 2 patterns, no postage was shown. When I clicked on the PayPal button I was taken to PayPal where I was shown the total of the 2 patterns. Once I signed into my PayPal account, I was immediately brought back to the checkout page where the postage had been added to the total. There was a button that says "Submit Order". The order isn't complete and the charge not completed until you click on the "Submit Order" button. Sadly, customers may well click on the button without looking at the total.

I feel reasonably sure that this is how it works with any site that doesn't require the buyer to have an account to purchase. However, most sites require the buyer to register before they can purchase. Why? Maybe so the site can drive them crazy with sales emails?
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15876

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila, the difference with my matrix is that the postage cost shows right on the listing page, while with the calculated, you have to click to get that box up, enter info before you see the shipping amount. The only thing my buyers would get, at least for US ones, is a happy surprise if they check out with two patterns as they will get a discounted shipping cost. When using the AU and UK sites, the listings give the postage rates that I supply for those countries so no surprises that way either. They will also get a discounted shipping price but not nearly as good as the US buyers.

Yes, you are very right about the tracking for international packages. I think it has been happening for about two years now and insurance for international order via endicia isn't that much depending on the cost of the item. Does international Priority have its base $50 insurance as well as the US ones? Doesn't come up much with me and my laptop doesn't have my postage program on it to check things like that.
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15876

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

double posted for some reason!

Last edited by MoonwishesStore on Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Five-And-Dime



Posts: 157

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate all the INFORMED (as opposed to OTHER forums) REPLIES.
The problem w/ the "tracking" is if nobody SCANS.
If I want to ship FCMI, I guess I'll need to sign up for Indicia.
I can't afford to pay out of pocket every time an Int'l PO doesn't scan delivered. And, I can't afford to 'ship as cheaply as possible' when the risk is on me. I will check into the 3rd party Ins. for eCrater.
Idea
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