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Google Exemption Refused
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birdcagerecords



Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Google Exemption Refused Reply with quote

Well... I was just refused an exemption from putting unique identifiers on my products despite the fact that I have already put them on every product that has one. I sell a lot of old records, comics, sheet music and posters... no upc's on these. The example Google gave me was for a product that I had a upc for... but apparently, has expired or is wrong.

After leaving eBay because of their brain-mangling new rules and punishments, and hoping for greener pastures here on eCrater, I'm hoping that this Google business isn't the start of trying to make customers jump through fiery hoops to just try to stay afloat on the site. I'm looking for ease of use and for the venue to just stay out of my business - I loved eCrater at first because it fit both of this criteria AND it was aligned with Google pay (trying to stay as much away from PayPal as possible) and search. But now I'm wondering.

PLEASE... can someone explain to me why this has become so confusing and so difficult for sellers. I know a lot of it is being caused by Google, but I wish the eCrater programmers could be a little more helpful.

Thoughts...?
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cosmicray



Posts: 7025

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Google Exemption Refused Reply with quote

birdcagerecords wrote:
Well... I was just refused an exemption from putting unique identifiers on my products despite the fact that I have already put them on every product that has one. I sell a lot of old records, comics, sheet music and posters... no upc's on these.

Then you put the 'brand' and 'mpn' attributes, if they are too old for 'upc' numbers.

As an example, I just pulled an old vinyl album from my collection:

title: Woodstock, music from the original soundtrack
brand: Cotillion (or possibly Cotillion Records)
mpn: SD3-500

Keep in mind that I took that mpn off the album spine. The album cover says 'SD 3-500' so you may have to research how other sellers are listing it, and list accordingly. Also, ignore the other numbers on the record label, as they appear to be pressing number for a particular side.
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birdcagerecords



Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Google Exemption Refused Reply with quote

cosmicray wrote:
As an example, I just pulled an old vinyl album from my collection:

title: Woodstock, music from the original soundtrack
brand: Cotillion (or possibly Cotillion Records)
mpn: SD3-500

Keep in mind that I took that mpn off the album spine. The album cover says 'SD 3-500' so you may have to research how other sellers are listing it, and list accordingly. Also, ignore the other numbers on the record label, as they appear to be pressing number for a particular side.


Thank you for that, cosmicray. Are you SURE that, at the end of the day, this will pass Google muster?

Next, I guess I have to figure out comics, posters and sheet music. Turning into quite a chore. Oh well.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7025

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Google Exemption Refused Reply with quote

birdcagerecords wrote:
Thank you for that, cosmicray. Are you SURE that, at the end of the day, this will pass Google muster?

Nope. But I believe that will satisfy best effort possible (i.e. you acted in good faith and listed all the information available to you). If they reject that, then come back here and tell us about it.

edit: you really need to research how other sellers are listing a product, and decide if the other sellers are actually following best practices. Use the tools ...

http://dev.tomthedeveloper.com/googlebase/ca/

As an example, here is an eCrater seller with that particular album listed ...

http://www.ecrater.com/p/10157297/woodstock-music-from-the-original-soundtrack

But, the TDD tools do not show them as having the brand or mpn attributes. I would guess that that seller will be having issues with the GB/GPS feed very soon. In fact, I found 10 or 11 listings for that album. Not one of them had the correct mpn or brand.
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wtcollectibles



Posts: 2728

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, and with my understanding of Google that would be very little, I did find at least 2 copies of that Woodstock album in Google Shopping. Both had the brand as Cotillion and that mpn number of SD3-500. One is from Ecrater.

Like I said, for whatever that is worth.

Edited - Woops! Sorry, didn't see your edit before I went off to search. Not trying to step on your toes.

The one I saw from Ecrater was from a different store from the one you found.
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dccollectibles



Posts: 2549

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Google Base tool would be a lot more helpful if it included Amazon and eBay in its listings. I've never found an instance of this happening. The way Google is treating those venues, they seem to have carte blanche and I for one would like to see their secrets.

Also, like it or not, correct or not, so far the best way to handle listings is to go "with the flow". This means misinformation and outright lies to the buying public but if Google says it's ok Rolling Eyes
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cosmicray



Posts: 7025

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dccollectibles wrote:
The Google Base tool would be a lot more helpful if it included Amazon and eBay in its listings.


I see Amazon web stores in the TTD results. Keep in mind that Amazon 3rd party sellers do not have a private page URL for listings. They are all just listed on the landing page for a specific product. If you want to see what is up at Amazon, you need to go there and look at the landing page.

eBay doesn't even have a landing page per se. They have something (which I think is wired up to internal search results).

It will be interesting to see how this all sorts out with respect to Amazon/eBay listings appearing in GB/GPS.
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dccollectibles



Posts: 2549

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I usually check by the item title in TTD's CAT. Is this not the right approach to see Amazon listings? For example: "Transformers Energon Ultra Magnus" - Amazon is first on Google Shopping but nowhere to be seen in the tool. I'd like to see all the attributes, not just those on the landing page (which might or might not have things like sku, mpn, etc.) I can see those on other stores, but nothing for Amazon.

I know it's a little early to tell as the deadline is not even close yet, BUT I think the changes are starting to manifest already. Most of our listings have dropped significantly as of the last feed (when we added a lot of the upi's they requested). Go figure. Ebay and Amazon have actually gained some ground. I'd like to know why. I'll hold my conspiracy theories until an official explanation is heard, but I don't like the smell of it.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7025

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dccollectibles wrote:
Hmm, I usually check by the item title in TTD's CAT. Is this not the right approach to see Amazon listings? For example: "Transformers Energon Ultra Magnus" - Amazon is first on Google Shopping but nowhere to be seen in the tool.

OK, when I run that I see this result (somewhere down on the first page) ...

http://toys-on-fire-ottawa.amazonwebstore.com/Transformers-Takara-Masterpiece-Collection-MP2-Ultra/M/B001FSJV5Q.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=froogle

Notice the 'amazonwebstore.com' in the URL. That is not part of the normal Amazon marketplace. That is a web store being run on Amazon's platform. Up in the corner it says "Powered by Amazon WebStore". When referring to Amazon, remember it is not a big monolith, it is a multi-headed hydra. The webstore results get sent to GB/GPS because they have a specific URL for the listing from that seller. The normal 3rd party marketplace only has a landing page URL for each specific product, and all of the marketplace sellers are listed on that landing page.

To see those sellers, you have to seek out the landing page. Because of the quirky arrangement, and because of Amazon's (and eBay's) size, I suspect they get a slightly different feed than we do.

edit: I also see results such as this one ...

http://collectorsparadisetoys.com/Transformers-Takara-Masterpiece-Collection-MP2-Ultra/M/B001FSJV5Q.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=froogle

Which I strongly suspect are also running on Amazon's platform, but are one level removed from broadcasting that fact. The clue is the ID attribute ( 'B001FSJV5Q' ) which is the same as the other Amazon listings for that item.
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dccollectibles



Posts: 2549

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this: http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Energon-Ultra-Magnus-Mini-Cons/dp/B000Y1A2C6

Google Shopping results: http://www.google.com/search?q=energon+ultra+mangus&hl=en&tbm=shop&ei=t8vGTZX5GsnXgQfKwJzNBA&start=0&sa=N&biw=1003&bih=603

Notice it's at the very top of the results. But nowhere in the CAT results. In comparison, since last week (after adding the required upi's), we've dropped from third place to last place. Now I have no proof that the two are correlated, but it's the first week this has happened and no other reason I can think of.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7025

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take, is that GPS was unable to correlate any two (of whatever the minimum number is) of the listings to show them in a tabular format. You may be feeding the correct attributes, but Amazon is most likely not.

I have previously seen my listings in the upper level as well, but typically only when Amazon had none on offer at all. When Amazon has something, you see the second level 'tabular' GPS results. Usually they will show Amazon, my listings, then someone front running Amazon for affiliate pennies.
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somewhereinmymemories



Posts: 228

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My exemption was denied also. I sell dolls and toys, used, unpackaged, in lots. Some of my items are too old to have isbn numbers.
can't believe Google just made it very difficult to sell for all of us. The majority of my buyers come through Google - most of them say "I have never bought on Ecrater before....." so I know they are finding me through Google shopping.
This really stinks.
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homeandbodyessence



Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

somewhereinmymemories wrote:
My exemption was denied also. I sell dolls and toys, used, unpackaged, in lots. Some of my items are too old to have isbn numbers.


If you only sell dolls and toys, ISBNs shouldn't apply to your products as they are for books & book-like items only. FYI, ISBN stands for International Standard Book Number - a 10-digit number used to identify books & book-like products internationally.
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kjscreations



Posts: 1726

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After leaving eBay because of their brain-mangling new rules and punishments, and hoping for greener pastures here on eCrater, I'm hoping that this Google business isn't the start of trying to make customers jump through fiery hoops to just try to stay afloat on the site. I'm looking for ease of use and for the venue to just stay out of my business - I loved eCrater at first because it fit both of this criteria AND it was aligned with Google pay (trying to stay as much away from PayPal as possible) and search. But now I'm wondering.


ALSO ... this is NOT just ecrater. I am on other venues & having to make all these same changes INCLUDING EBAY.

So if anyone thinks there are greener pastures... you may want to think that again cuz it ain't greener. Confused
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SheilaDeesPostcards



Posts: 4150

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Google Exemption Refused Reply with quote

birdcagerecords wrote:
Well... I was just refused an exemption from putting unique identifiers on my products despite the fact that I have already put them on every product that has one. I sell a lot of old records, comics, sheet music and posters... no upc's on these. The example Google gave me was for a product that I had a upc for... but apparently, has expired or is wrong.
What was the reason given for the denial? I was denied my first attempt in two stores. One store had Brand/MPN for every item except 2. Going back I realized one of the two did have an MPN. When I added that one and resent the exemption request, it was approved.

In my book store I got a message that said in part, "we noticed that some of your items contain invalid unique product identifiers." I went back over the ISBNs I had added and had to laugh at myself. I must have been asleep when I was doing some of the work. I generally add my attributes at the end of the description and I had missing !, missing brackets, one I left out the attribute name and just put the number, one I had used cut/paste and didn't proof to see what I pasted (it wasn't even an ISBN number), one ISBN was short a number. It was about 1/2 dozen that were wrong. These had no red ! because they had something in the ISBN field. I waited for another feed to Google and now I'm waiting to hear on the exemption.

Maybe there are errors with some of the UPCs you submitted. Google has NOT requested Brand/MPNs for media! They have only requested UPCs for Media (i.e., Music, Movies, Video games) made in North America. Check the chart here.
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