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When it makes sense to have duplicate listings
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gtechccs



Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: When it makes sense to have duplicate listings Reply with quote

I'm having a dillema about duplicating some listings, where this makes sense.

I'm selling re-manufactured printer cartridges which fit several printers. The logical way to list them would be one listing per type of cartridge with a title such as "[compatible brand] [cartridge name]"

The problem here is that most people are searching by "[printer name] cartridge", not by the cartridge type. Most do not even know what type of cartridge fits their printer, so this is a logical thing for the buyers to do. I do include all the compatible printers in my descriprions, however, when I search, for example for "OfficeJet 6310 cartridge", my listing does not show up in Google search results, and the number of views I get is minimal, with no sales.

A lot of other sites create one listing per printer, with the printer name in the title. This gives them visibility in the search results, at the expense of honest eCrater sellers. I think it's an overkill tactic.

What I would like to do is list the same cartridge several times, with a title containing several printer names: for example
"HP 98 cartridge for OfficeJet 6310, 5230," etc.
This does two things. First, it enables sellers to list by printer type, and get visibility in search results. Second, it limits the number of duplicate listings from 20-30 to 5 or 6.

Of course, eCrater policy forbids duplicate listings, but vaguely defines "duplicate listing". Since the listings have different titles, one may argue that they are not in fact duplicates.

The issue of accessories or replacement parts fitting several products extends beyond print cartridges. The same issues apply to visibility in search results.

How do you guys get around the problem? Do you duplicate your listings, or do you just live with the fact that you may not have as many sales?
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FoxAndFish



Posts: 1585

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: When it makes sense to have duplicate listings Reply with quote

gtechccs wrote:
eCrater policy forbids duplicate listings, but vaguely defines "duplicate listing".

Here is the relevant Terms 4.5: "Multiple listings of the same item are not allowed. Listing items in lots with a different price per item in lots is not allowed. Each item should be listed only once." Seems pretty clear to me.

gtechccs wrote:
Since the listings have different titles, one may argue that they are not in fact duplicates.

I don't think that argument can be rationally supported. The Terms refers clearly to the item. There is only one item, even if it's used in diff. printers. The one item can be listed only once.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7286

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are selling the exact same thing, then one listing only.

Put in the body text a list of all the models it fits.

If space permits, but the printer brand names in the title (HP, Brother, Canon, etc). Most printer cartridges will only fit into one brand, and then only select models.
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gtechccs



Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicray wrote:

Put in the body text a list of all the models it fits.

I do have a comprehensive list. It still brings less than 30 views a month.

cosmicray wrote:

If space permits, but the printer brand names in the title (HP, Brother, Canon, etc). Most printer cartridges will only fit into one brand, and then only select models.

I can put "HP Officejet, Deskjet, Photosmart", which I already did. The problem is that I still don't get visibility in search results.
Virtually any cartridge in Google search results has duplicate listings. It seems that the other sellers are getting an unfair advantage, and there is not much we can do about it.

Other than the logical steps suggested above, I take it there is nothing us honest sellers can do.
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FoxAndFish



Posts: 1585

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtechccs wrote:
The problem is that I still don't get visibility in search results.

Every seller might be able to say that at one point or another. High visibility in search results is what every seller wants, but it can be elusive. So each seller needs to decide what they are willing to do to achieve it, within the guidelines of their selling venues and in relation to their own business ethics...and how much time and effort will be devoted to chasing whatever the search engines are doing on any given day. Search engines change their processes often, so what works one day may not work the next. Do some sellers manipulate the system or violate venue TOS for their own advantage? Sure. It's the age-old problem of means and ends.
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thecheapskirt



Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtechccs wrote:
cosmicray wrote:

Put in the body text a list of all the models it fits.

I do have a comprehensive list. It still brings less than 30 views a month.

cosmicray wrote:

If space permits, but the printer brand names in the title (HP, Brother, Canon, etc). Most printer cartridges will only fit into one brand, and then only select models.

I can put "HP Officejet, Deskjet, Photosmart", which I already did. The problem is that I still don't get visibility in search results.
Virtually any cartridge in Google search results has duplicate listings. It seems that the other sellers are getting an unfair advantage, and there is not much we can do about it.

Other than the logical steps suggested above, I take it there is nothing us honest sellers can do.


You can build your own website. That's what I'm doing.

Ecrater is great for a lot of things, but sometimes their terms don't work for everyone. Then you move on and find something that does.
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MoonwishesStore
moderator


Posts: 17389

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only time it makes sense HERE to have duplicate listings if if you want to be suspended.

Some sellers seem to be on many multiple venues selling the same stuff hoping to pick up customers on each venue. When I search for something on line, once I realize it is the same seller over and over again, I bypass them and check out other sellers. I'm looking for a combination of price, seller feedback, as well as professionalism on their site or store.
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maggiethehousecat



Posts: 2457

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Removing that restriction would open the site to a myriad of problems.
Consider a cat figurine that could be listed under collectibles/decorative, collectibles/animals, art/sculpture, and home and garden/home decor.

Consider that if you got a waiver to do the duplicate listings, every other seller of the same products would also get waivers and your problem would only be magnified.
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gtechccs



Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All your points are perfectly valid.

It seems that in this regard eCrater's policy is not really helping sellers iin this regard. Feebay for example, has a policy of at most 5 listings (Whether the policy is followed is an entirely different matter). That would be sufficient for most cases.

Building my own website is something for which I have the knowledge, but not the time. It's definitely a good direction to have in mind, but is not a short term solution.

Another thing I could do is create a different cartridge for each printer, just by creating unique labels for each printer. I'd have each listing pictured with a different label. Legally, they would be different items, and in compliance with eCrater policy. The only reason I'm not doing this is that it's completely against the founding principles of eCrater.

A lot of you seem to feel strongly against any sort of duplication. My point is, there are loopholes that people can exploit, so would it not make sense to just create an environment where the honest seller can thrive in the first place?

Since, for now, I do not have an efficient method of reaching buyers, all I can say is goodbye to a several thousand dollar investment in remanufacturing equipment. That's probably the main reason why this policy is stabbing me in the chest.
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MoonwishesStore
moderator


Posts: 17389

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My point is, there are loopholes that people can exploit, so would it not make sense to just create an environment where the honest seller can thrive in the first place?


Honest sellers are thriving here without the need for loopholes.

Part of the problem is when so many would like an exception for their special circumstance and before you know it, nobody can find anything because of all the special dispensations. Even ebay was set up to only have one item listed but you could show the quantity. Don't know when they started allowing identical listings, but all it does is make a traffic jam.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7286

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtechccs wrote:
Another thing I could do is create a different cartridge for each printer, just by creating unique labels for each printer. I'd have each listing pictured with a different label. Legally, they would be different items, and in compliance with eCrater policy. The only reason I'm not doing this is that it's completely against the founding principles of eCrater.

Actually, if you wanted to do that completely on the up & up, I suspect you could go purchase UPC number for each cart / printer combo. Label the packages with the proper UPC number, and then you would be somewhat OK (and I say that with the full understanding how this will play in Peoria).

Don't take my ramblings as legal advice tho.
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thelivesandlovesofmaggiethecat



Posts: 10158

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtechccs wrote:
All your points are perfectly valid.

It seems that in this regard eCrater's policy is not really helping sellers iin this regard. Feebay for example, has a policy of at most 5 listings (Whether the policy is followed is an entirely different matter). That would be sufficient for most cases.

Since, for now, I do not have an efficient method of reaching buyers, all I can say is goodbye to a several thousand dollar investment in remanufacturing equipment. That's probably the main reason why this policy is stabbing me in the chest.


Feebay charges for each listing. They can afford to let you do this. eCRATER charges you nothing for each listing. Bear this in mind when you say eCRATER is unfair.

Before you throw away your investment, consider the different labels you mentioned above. You can also list the variations on other free sites or those that only charge a final value fee. Because your titles and descriptions will be different, the product will not be seen as duplication.
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FoxAndFish



Posts: 1585

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtechccs wrote:
It seems that in this regard eCrater's policy is not really helping sellers iin this regard.

This is just my opinion, of course, but I don't think it's eCrater's job to "help" sellers. To my mind, eCrater is doing us an enormous service simply by offering a clean, sane, rational platform on which we can build a business, with simple, straightforward, reasonable guidelines and little to no interference. One of the many reasons I respect what eCrater is doing is precisely b/c it doesn't have loopholes and wiggle room. eCrater is a rare example of being a good citizen of the larger internet and online selling community without gaming to its own self-interest.

gtechccs wrote:
Building my own website is something for which I have the knowledge, but not the time. It's definitely a good direction to have in mind, but is not a short term solution.

I'm building my own website...in addition to selling on multiple other sites. None of it guarantees the visibility you're looking for. You can conceivably list whatever you want however you want on your own website...the search engines can ignore you just the same.

gtechccs wrote:
The only reason I'm not doing this is that it's completely against the founding principles of eCrater.

Exactly. And applause for you for respecting not just the letter but also the spirit of the Terms.

gtechccs wrote:
there are loopholes that people can exploit, so would it not make sense to just create an environment where the honest seller can thrive in the first place?

To my mind, eCrater has created an environment for honest sellers. Loopholes not necessary.

gtechccs wrote:
I do not have an efficient method of reaching buyers

Then that's something you need to work on, as every seller must. Again, every seller in every line of business, in every venue, online and in the real world, wants visibility. The fact that you're not getting the visibility you want for your business has little to do with eCrater's terms.
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thecheapskirt



Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I built a front end site for my ecrater store in less time than it would have taken to come here and complain about this (took a few hours on Sunday and now I'm just populating the data... if only Godaddy would stop screwing up my DNS I would be done).

In this front end if I wished I could make as many listings as I wanted for an individual ecrater store item, with as many different titles as I wanted to, in as many different combinations, and have them all point back to the one listing, therefore still following ecrater's rules.

It's just a simple Wordpress blog. Had one already on Wordpress.com but moving to my own Wordpress installation allows me to have a dynamic sort of items by any number of variables, however I choose to tag them, which I found much more flexible and visually appealing than what ecrater limits us to.

I could go all the way and make my own ecommerce website but for this particular store I will not because I already get SO much traffic to ecrater from links all over to it that it would be a waste to not continue it coming in. So instead it is just a front end (sort of like an affiliate site). Since the fad that the store caters to will pass in a short period of time it wouldn't make much sense to start over.

I guess my point is, complaining here doesn't change anything. But action does.
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elpereles



Posts: 3427

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtechccs, forget the duplicate idea in eCrater. One thing is sell the items in 10 different sites and other is sell the same 10 items in one site.

I don't like eBay searches for that reason. I don't like have 600 items in a search to find that 50% are fro the same seller.
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