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AntiquesAttic



Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicray wrote:
AntiquesAttic wrote:
MoonwishesStore wrote:
I doubt it is has anything to do with the item itself, but wow to get so many orders for that particular item on the same day!

Your buyer may have seen the charge on her statement already through the power of the internet and maybe did not recognize your business name on the statement so thought it was unauthorized unless the cat, monkey, or two-year-old ordered it for themselves.

Make sure in your communications with them to find out what merchant name is listed with the charge. Also, confirm with her that she didn't want the order. Funny things happen. I've had buyers want to cancel almost immediately after buying, costing me 30 cents from PP each time. Or the lady that bought a pattern and then 'suddenly' isn't going to have time to sew due to circumstances that she had already told me about when she ordered initially! Or the lady insisting I had sent her the wrong pattern and she had no use for it! I had never had it in stock and turns out she had bought it that morning at JoAnn Fabrics! Not sure why she bought it, but at least she settled down once she realized it was her fault, not mine.

Am I the only sewer that buys a pattern and then takes years before I get around to making it if ever? I don't understand buyers that unless they have it by Friday to make on the weekend will never use it. I once had a buyer send me a box full of Vogue designer patterns, all current and new within about the last year. Even with all the patterns down here, I have a drawer crammed full of patterns in my sewing room. Many not yet made. Embarassed


Well... As Tracking was uploaded immediately, thru PayPal & eCrater, and, eCrater & PayPal sent Order confirms, I find it hard to believe people would not know they Ordered something. That is 6-8 messages, Plus, the parcels have invoices in them. What disgusts me is people doing this Chargeback thing, then, ignoring eMails when you ask them to address the problem they caused.


The unauthorized use could be someone using your listing to test stolen CC numbers. That's a sketchy explanation, bit it is possible.


The listing has 138 views... my others around 20-35.
All the addresses check out on eCrater/PayPal/Google Search.
Weird... just weird.
Plus, my PayPal is set up to require Phone Numbers.
I have those as well as differing eMail addys.
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cosmicray



Posts: 6587

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of remarks …

PP isn't going to verify those phone numbers, they merely pass them along to you.

On the failed transactions, closely examine the email payment notices from PP. If you see a line that says Receipt number: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx, that indicates that buyer does not have a formal PP account, but instead used Express where they enter a card number, expiration date, street address, and CVC (and possibly a name) and then PP authenticates the payment based on those (few) parameters.

If the card parameters being used, came from any number of breaches (Marriot/Starwood, Home Depot, Target, etc etc) and have never been previously used, the person using the information may be testing the cards to see which ones (in the batch they purchased on the dark web) might still be active. A quick nonsensical purchase would give them an indicator if they should toss this one, or move on to bigger better stuff. When you talk about addresses supplied, this is an item that I had a huge gripe about how Stripe handled that. They actually only verify the street number, and not the street direction or name. Even if the street number mismatched, they would run the payment.

Just one possibility. But the pattern of problems suggests an atypical reason.
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AntiquesAttic



Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicray wrote:
A couple of remarks …

PP isn't going to verify those phone numbers, they merely pass them along to you.

On the failed transactions, closely examine the email payment notices from PP. If you see a line that says Receipt number: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx, that indicates that buyer does not have a formal PP account, but instead used Express where they enter a card number, expiration date, street address, and CVC (and possibly a name) and then PP authenticates the payment based on those (few) parameters.

If the card parameters being used, came from any number of breaches (Marriot/Starwood, Home Depot, Target, etc etc) and have never been previously used, the person using the information may be testing the cards to see which ones (in the batch they purchased on the dark web) might still be active. A quick nonsensical purchase would give them an indicator if they should toss this one, or move on to bigger better stuff. When you talk about addresses supplied, this is an item that I had a huge gripe about how Stripe handled that. They actually only verify the street number, and not the street direction or name. Even if the street number mismatched, they would run the payment.

Just one possibility. But the pattern of problems suggests an atypical reason.


@CosmicRay...
Now THAT makes SENSE...
ALL the Orders are from 'MarketPlace'...
and ALL are from 'Express Checkout'.
But, if the Payment is 'confirmed' and marked: 'O.K. to Ship'
I'm protected, correct ?
So far, 3 of the orders were RTS... invalid address.
Moved, vacant, etc. (old addresses ?)
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AntiquesAttic



Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... what was -I- to do ? NOT ship ?
I was told the orders (that paid) were 'good'.
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SheilaDeesPostcards



Posts: 3779

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CosmicRay, your possible scenario makes a lot of sense.

AntiqueAttic, you may want to review the current PayPal User Agreement regarding "Selling and Accepting Payments" with special attention to the steps a seller needs to take to make sure they are eligible for 'Seller Protection' when something goes wrong. Since the orders were marked 'Seller Protection - Eligible' and it appears you followed all the steps, it sounds like PayPal will refund the transactions back to your account. You need to read the sections for yourself to make sure you 'crossed all the T's and dotted all the i's' to qualify for Seller Protection.

Here's a link to the PayPal User Agreement, Selling and Accepting Payments:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#seller-protection
Or you can go to PayPal, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the tiny link that says Legal. Then click on 'PayPal User Agreement' and select the link 'Selling & Accepting Payments' from the left navagation list. Either scroll down or click the left links to review the sections titled 'Refunds, Reversals & Chargebacks' and 'Seller Protection'.

AntiquesAttic wrote:
So... what was -I- to do ? NOT ship ?
I was told the orders (that paid) were 'good'.
I would have done exactly what you did (except the echeck), shipped all the orders and done a happy dance! Sadly, sometimes these things happen. You said you had a B&M. If a customer buys a $40.00 item and pays with a $100 bill, then later your bank determines the bill was counterfeit, you are going to have a $100 loss. Your inventory went with the buyer and the bank is going to reverse the $100 deposit, so you loss the $100.00. At least in this case, PayPal may reimburse you for some (or all) of the problem orders.

When I had a B&M, I had a regular customer that had been shopping with me at least once a month and sometime more often for over 2 years. He called and said he was on a business trip in Tampa and wanted to place an order. His wife was driving down to have a few vacation days and would bring his order. He gave me his credit card (which was processed as 'card not present') and later that afternoon his wife picked up his order. We chatted a while and all seemed well. The back story was he gave me his 'corp. employee business card', he no longer worked for the corp., they had moved (no forwarding address), and the Corp. contested the charge as 'unauthorized'. The company won, I lost apx. $100, and the FL law system could not find him. It was assumed he moved out of state. Crying or Very sad

These things happen and I feel real bad it happened to you.

One thing I would add, you need to make a copy of the Delivery confirmation on the USPS site for every one of these orders. A PDF would be best, a 'snip-it' clip would be second best and a print out of the page acceptable. If it's fraud, you could have problems next month when the customers check their credit card bills. The credit card banks allow a much longer window for contesting a charge then the 60 days or so that the USPS keeps the records available on line. If you can't save it as a PDF, I use a great program that's free that I strongly recommend.
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MoonwishesStore



Posts: 15207

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good info Sheila. I was a bit on the right track thinking it was odd that 10 door hinges, the same ones, were sold to 10 different customers all on the same day. Undoubtedly, the e/check was from the checkbook an owner had lost.

My son accidentally left his checkbook at a restaurant. He reported everything immediately to the bank, so no problem when some nitwit used it and the business wanted to get an NSF charge on him, but it was a stolen check. I don't think he ever takes his checkbook out of his house now!
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Chakracord



Posts: 147

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... all that information. Thanks.

But now my head hurts with too much information. Embarassed

I would of be muddling through this if this happened to me.
I am glad that I do things a bit slow when I see strange things and try to figure them out.
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AntiquesAttic



Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, SheilaDee,
I will take screenshots of the USPS Order, Tracking, & Delivered info. & save it. A whole bunch were DELIVERED to good addresses.
Hopefully, the others wanted the item.
The Orders were spaced apart by 15 mins to an hour to a few hours.
I thought I'd hit the right combo by lowering price from $4.99 to $4.49
and upping Markeplace Ad to 5.9% from the lowest.
Hoping I am not sorry I did that.
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cosmicray



Posts: 6587

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is insanely curious about how these cretins operate (the stolen card kids), I highly recommend reading Brian Krebs blog …

https://krebsonsecurity.com/

Concerning the recent Marriot/Starwood breach …

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/11/marriott-data-on-500-million-guests-stolen-in-4-year-breach/

Plus many many articles over the past years. Everyone contains a little valuable tidbit about how the black hats operate.
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AntiquesAttic



Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicray wrote:
If anyone is insanely curious about how these cretins operate (the stolen card kids), I highly recommend reading Brian Krebs blog …

https://krebsonsecurity.com/

Concerning the recent Marriot/Starwood breach …

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/11/marriott-data-on-500-million-guests-stolen-in-4-year-breach/

Plus many many articles over the past years. Everyone contains a little valuable tidbit about how the black hats operate.


CosmicRay... and all of you... are AWESOME !
Hoping you ALL do REALLY WELL this Holiday Selling Season !
Smile
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AntiquesAttic



Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad
Well... SAD to SAY... it is getting WORSE...
Got HUGE 'deposits' to my PayPal this am... over $100. each
Two were contested... by same person as:
" Sorry, I made mistake " w/ a foreign sounding sender...
two not yet contested.
I refunded ALL thru PayPal w/ note: No ORDER.
I got one Order from a listing that is now '0' quantity.
From a guy who reversed his $7.48 Payment on that same item.
His pkg was RTS from that SAME address.
I refunded that, too.
I got one for a different item on eCrater.
I eMailed that Buyer to CONFIRM her Order.
I attached COPIES of eCrater Order, and item.
If i do not hear back, I will refund that, too.
I REMOVED PayPal and Stripe from my eCrater Store.
Once the dust has cleared, I will have to close my eCrater Store.
I will start removing items until then.
I will also close that PayPal Account once all is clear.
It is a Micro-Payments Account.
It is too costly to sell under $15.00 free ship anyway.
Postage, fees, etc., not worth it.
On eBay, other sites, etc., I will use my main account.
Wish I had better news.
Confused
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AntiquesAttic



Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two of the double payments (total over $400.00) same person:
Has:
1) No Order
2) a message: this is a mistake Please Refund (in the payment)
3) A 'confirmed' OK to ship by PayPal on orig. Payment.
4) A name/address search returns a family relative who is deceased on google.
Those are being HELD by PayPal.
I did respond to REFUND as there is NO ORDER.
-
I removed all but Check/MO on my eCrater Store.
I added: PayPal, Stripe IF you confirm your order thru eMail.
I will then send an Invoice.
-
Can't think of what else to do.
-
Once dust has cleared, all 'cases' resolved...
I will close that MicroPayments Account.
It will have a bad 'history'.
All the eBay, Facebook Payments have had no problems.
Hoping PayPal doesn't freeze it until I get back the 'held'/shipped.
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