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Signature Confirmation threshold at PP

 
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cosmicray



Posts: 7156

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject: Signature Confirmation threshold at PP Reply with quote

PP sent me an email today advising of ToS revisions. The biggie is that the signature requirement threshold (for SPP) is being increased from $250 to $750. This may actually save me a few $$s.

Opinions ?
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AudioGasoline



Posts: 1015

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're just catching up to Ebay, who raised the required Signature Confirmation limit to $750 in last year's Spring Update. Since PayPal's limit stayed at $250, a lot of Ebay sellers were still using SC at $250 to cover all their bases. This change just fixes the disparity. Maybe the Ebay sellers were just guinea pigs before they went live with it to everyone on PayPal.

Not sure why they're informing everyone so sporadically, sellers on the Ebay forums started mentioning the PayPal email a couple of weeks ago. Personally, I still haven't gotten it.

Effective date is May 15, here's a link to the whole list of changes at PayPal:
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US

Other changes are mirroring changes that happened at Ebay last year, like a mandatory wait time before a buyer can file INR claims, and Buyer Protection rules for international sales now come from the buyer's country instead of the seller's (that is, in a US-to-UK transaction, the seller is covered by US Seller Protection while the buyer is under UK Buyer Protection. Rolling Eyes I still haven't figured out what this means for international sellers, if anything. Confused)

But I think you're right, it should save sellers a few bucks on high priced items.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7156

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that I would like to know very much ... at what level do merchant account transactions (e.g Stripe) need a signature ?

Quote:
But I think you're right, it should save sellers a few bucks on high priced items.

It's the total amount of the order (I think). A bunch of smaller items, totaling up towards $250, might have triggered the threshold before, but no longer.
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AudioGasoline



Posts: 1015

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicray wrote:
Something that I would like to know very much ... at what level do merchant account transactions (e.g Stripe) need a signature?

I don't think it applies, since Stripe has no Seller Protection Policy. Each issuing bank probably has their own definition of "Proof Of Delivery". Maybe a regular Delivery Confirmation scan is enough proof, even for large dollar orders.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7156

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AudioGasoline wrote:
cosmicray wrote:
Something that I would like to know very much ... at what level do merchant account transactions (e.g Stripe) need a signature?

I don't think it applies, since Stripe has no Seller Protection Policy. Each issuing bank probably has their own definition of "Proof Of Delivery". Maybe a regular Delivery Confirmation scan is enough proof, even for large dollar orders.

Hmmm.. I did a search for 'merchant account proof of delivery'. One of the hits was this one from Wells Fargo ...
https://www.wellsfargo.com/biz/merchant/service/manage/prevent

Under #3 and #4
Quote:
If you obtained a valid authorization, received an exact AVS match (street number and zip code) and the merchandise was delivered to that address, supply the signed proof of delivery and the authorization information to merchant services.

My take is that a signature is handy to have in case of a chargeback. Without a signature, then an unauthorized use is going to be hard to dispute.

Also note that USPS, when obtaining signatures, only takes whatever is provided by who ever makes the mark on the device. They do not check to see that the name on the package matches the name provided.
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thecheapskirt



Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AudioGasoline wrote:
Buyer Protection rules for international sales now come from the buyer's country instead of the seller's (that is, in a US-to-UK transaction, the seller is covered by US Seller Protection while the buyer is under UK Buyer Protection. Rolling Eyes I still haven't figured out what this means for international sellers, if anything. Confused)


From experience on eBay, it means that if you have a scammy UK buyer, expect to just kiss your money goodbye. EBay UK trust and safety is a joke. They will not let you Skype them, which is odd because eBay owns Skype. You have to call them and use a lot of money sitting on hold waiting to talk to somebody in the UK. Only to have it sound like someone in India anyway. Then they tell you that if a buyer does return an item that they destroyed while they had it in their possession, you still need to refund them anyway. Because they returned something.

I don't know if non-eBay transactions are handled as poorly.
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MoonwishesStore
moderator


Posts: 17125

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also note that USPS, when obtaining signatures, only takes whatever is provided by who ever makes the mark on the device. They do not check to see that the name on the package matches the name provided.


And it can end up being very silly when they are delivering an important document to a person from the court. When my ex filed for divorce, the paperwork from the court arrived at the house for me while I was at work and the idjit signed for it himself. Since in our state you have to respond to that paperwork within 10 actual days the clock was ticking for me from the time he signed for it. I'm surprised he even bothered to give it to me! But the court never got proof that I was served with divorce papers. It was just the icing on the cake for me after 13 years of misery with him.

Every time I see those signature confirmation cards I laugh inside as they are no proof of anything. I've even remember sending one to a courthouse in another sate and never got it back only to discover that they don't ever sign for the papers that came in to them. Not sure how they got away with that, but I do know that if a guy is robbing you blind and the mailman shows up with a package to sign for, the burglar would sign for it and throw it in with his other goodies and the sender would still get a card saying that it had been received.

I think the cheaper DC is almost a more honest approach. It just shows that the item arrived at its destination. Of course you can't track if it was stolen from a mailbox, but the majority of the time, things do arrive where they are supposed to.
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A-Better-Way



Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some guy at ebay forums had a problem with a paypal case because his item was not above $250 and used a sig, wish I could find it for you all.

It backfired in some way, and I know it don't make sense, wish I could remember.
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cosmicray



Posts: 7156

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A-Better-Way wrote:
Some guy at ebay forums had a problem with a paypal case because his item was not above $250 and used a sig, wish I could find it for you all.

It backfired in some way, and I know it don't make sense, wish I could remember.

I cannot imagine how that would cause a problem. Every paypal payment suggests signature confirmation, but the fine print in the ToS only requires it above a threshold amount (now raised to $750). The only thing that comes to my mind is that paying for the SC means that the carrier won't leave it unattended, and the buyer has to make contact with the PO to claim the package. Certain types of mail are classified as accountable mail (i.e. the post office has to account for it, and make sure it does not get lost). The DMM is hazy about signature confirmation being accountable or not.

I wonder how USPS feels about this change (as it will hit some of their revenue).
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A-Better-Way



Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking it would save them money, takes more time, more hassle, more paperwork.
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